63 Comments
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Lucinda's avatar

Amazing thanking you so much please keep writing and thinking and sharing. Made me cry reading this . Ive been reading “My Dear Kabul” from an Afghan womens group. And the destruction of women in Afghanistan is horrifying but it made me think that this destruction of women and Mother Earth is this male war killing energy that is cruel and like boys with dangerous weapons who won’t grow up.

Thank you your work shines a light forward .. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

Susan Kacvinsky's avatar

I'm so glad it resonated. I think you are right. I'm beginning to think that killing energy is the violence we are raised with. The harsher the "spare the rod," the harsher the culture. I've also begun to think that children get frozen in childhood by this trauma, and then they gain power. I watched my brother put it down when he was dying - but not until then. So terribly, terribly sad.

Amanda Jaffe's avatar

Susan said it first. And she mentioned kintsugi, too. Brilliant!

Susan Kacvinsky's avatar

Thanks Amanda. Wishing you well!

N.D. Stone's avatar

You dropped all the best truth bombs in this essay. We CAN save ourselves. Thank you.

Susan Kacvinsky's avatar

And thank you! We’ve always had the ways and means. We just haven’t had the will. Also, we’ve been systematically lied to for profit. It’s all falling apart now, though. Bring it on.

N.D. Stone's avatar

🖤

Michael Preedy's avatar

I have Coltrane’s waves in my ears 🎶A love supreme! A love supreme! A love supreme!🎶

Susan Kacvinsky's avatar

That’s the perfect soundtrack. And now I have it playing, too. Thanks for that.

Anni Ponder's avatar

We heard it here first. I wish we were all in a room together—I would pop the champagne and we would dance the night away.

WE ARE THE FIFTH WAVE!!

Here’s to a more compassionate, balanced, creative world. So glad to be with you all as the water swells and rises.

🌊

Susan Kacvinsky's avatar

Beautiful message! I love that.

Matthew C Sutcliffe's avatar

Fifth wave is to be applauded. And as you say, men have work to do. As I've said elsewhere, this fight is our fight, gentlemen. Because the silence is endemic, and unseen, exceptions for the extremes of Motherless and Tate. But it is an outcome of a power imbalance that stretches back a long, long way and is even now omnipresent - among men, who don't yet realise they are maintaining it either by actions or by silence. Me included.

Susan Kacvinsky's avatar

I think it's all of us included. If women didn't uphold patriarchy, it would have collapsed long ago. Very few of us understand how much we don't question things that must be questioned, and how much it hurts us all that we don't. Thank you so much for reading and commenting. It means a lot to me.

Matthew C Sutcliffe's avatar

Agreed. You uphold the patriarchy in that sense - we ARE the patriarchy.

Mendy Knott's avatar

WE are not. I’ll not be thrown into that kettle of fish. I have no need of men whatsoever. Happy if they want to get aboard the F train, but convinced most won’t. They want to know, but what do I get if I do all this work? They are ultimately rewarded time and again. Who will willingly give up that prestige, the sheen of power over, the money, the desire to simply take what they want? There’s a perfect example in the White House with his team of republicans propping him up. Not one man, not one, has been willing or able to stand against him. True, some women will go along for the benefits. Brainwashing, beatings, gaslighting, and being the constant underdog takes a terrible toll. Ask a person of color or a First Nations tribe. Patriarchy exacts a terrible toll. I will save my energy and the years I have left (2nd wave of feminism—see how that worked out) taking back the night and the day and the right to have a life of peace and justice. Men, you’re on your own.

Susan Kacvinsky's avatar

I think this is a valid POV. I understand it. There is so much to be angry about, and often, it's other feminists who have let people of color and First Nations people down. Often it's because we haven't understood how power works or our place in upholding it. We haven't understood all the ways we play along, or we only wanted things to get better - for me. Or we wanted to change the parts of the system that hurt us without changing the parts that benefited us, without understanding that you can't do that. I think the thing that will cause men to do their own work isn't some altruistic feeling. It will be the very real pain patriarchy causes them, and the need to get out of pain before they kill themselves. You know the stats about that, I'm sure. Finally, we are at the part of the story where they are going to have to heal or die. Plus, our empire is falling apart in real time. There will be goads from the inside and the outside. The change is happening whether they want it or not. I hope I live to see it.

Susan Kacvinsky's avatar

As they say in good horror movies: “The monster is in the house!”

Robin Payes's avatar

Fifth wave feminism--we're there. Thank you for naming it, Susan. But since the term "feminist" is so triggering to the very men we want to encourage to share in (remember Rush Limbaugh's "feminazi"? And that was just way back in the third wave), perhaps it's time to unveil a new term.

What might that be? Hmm, idk. Maybe we call it "humanism"? Or even "pan-humanism" given the mythic proportions- or is that an unnecessary reduncancy?

Susan Kacvinsky's avatar

I like humanism, Robin, especially when we are talking about community. Your point about the triggering term is well taken. I use “matrifocal,” rather than matriarchal when I write about community becuase the archy part of that word means rule-by, and it conjurs up the wrong image. I’ve given a lot of thought to softening the term feminism, and decided not to do it, since what I want is a feminization of the culture. So, I’m going to reclaim the word, and use it. Those who would be triggered by the word would eventually also be triggered by the policies we want. I get it, though.

Robin Payes's avatar

I appreciate the thoughtfulness in your word choice and reclamation, Susan. Respect!

But as a writer, I think the apt use words is important--and changes in language can often presage changes in awareness. Way back in second-wave feminism in the 1970s, in which I was an enthusiastic participant, we used the phrase "Women's Liberation" which got shortened to "women's lib", which was then used dismissively as, "You're one of the women's libbers, aren't you," which, in turn, meant "hippie bra burner."

Somehow, "feminist" seemed more academic and less easily disparaged. It also sounded a bit elitist--which I think goes against the very community-raising we all want.

And historically, "feminization" sounds softer--and I think implies qualities like empathy and nurturing, but today's man-bros seem to reject that as weak and woke. Also, in the late-'70s and early-'80s, we feminists talked a lot about "the feminization of poverty" which recognized that an increase in single motherhood often lead to women falling into "welfare" -- and draining the public trough. Ronald Reagan understood how that could be used as a political cudgel.

Words like "matrifocal" may be accurate, but hard to understand.

I don't claim to be an authority on the evolving etymology, but I do wonder if how we claim agency and encourage men to take responsibility for themselves and their actions may not be worth a conversation.

Robert Wallis's avatar

Such a helpful essay. Thanks for laying the issues and history out so well. FWIW, any derivative of Patri- or Matri- is going to get weaponized à la Limbaugh’s feminazi trolling. As a man who is awakening to all of this, my inclination is that the broader appeal of “humanity” and “humanism” will more helpfully undermine the zero sum narrative that is the refuge of fearful minds. The only problem, at least from my background in evangelicalism, is that “humanism” carries a lot of baggage. No term is going to be impervious to bad-faith agents’ weaponization.

I wish we could invent a meaningful, alternative term. It’s frustrating to have to spend such time creating the context for the message, but words are power and it matters.

Susan Kacvinsky's avatar

I agree with you and Robin, but I'm unwilling to wait to discover the magic words, because as you say, it can all be spun. I think the work is to embrace everyone, and that is what I'm trying to do here. I wasn't always a shining example of grace. I fall short. So, I'll keep writing, and maybe one day the right framing will drop into a sentence, and there it will be, winking at me.

Robert Wallis's avatar

Yes, I say “to hell with them” but I have love in my heart. It wasn’t too long ago that I was convinced I was right about most things. The freedom and peace I now experience…I wish it for everyone. May it be so.

Susan Kacvinsky's avatar

Me too. For me, this turn is toward healing. Dare I say it? A more spiritual approach. That’s why I included that part about self-inquiry: who are you and what do you want? For me, the answer to both those questions is joy. It took decades to get to the bottom of it. Our culture is so destructive to our humanity.

Robin Payes's avatar

Anthropos comes to mind. But that sounds very academic

Robert Wallis's avatar

It does sound a bit academic, but it has the advantage of preventing the knee jerk associations of the other terms. Although “Athropic” has its own baggage now. Well, it’s a fascinating and interesting challenge to reframe the cultural narrative. Peace.

Susan Kacvinsky's avatar

Agreed, Robert. Perhaps Robin's suggestion of humanism works? IDK. That term already means so much. Whatever we do, it has to include everyone.

Susan Kacvinsky's avatar

I remember all of that. I've even had that question: You aren't a woman's libber, are you? hurled my way for not wearing a bra. I've been around a minute or two. I love how thoughtful you are about this, and I hope we find a way to reach people. I fear that no matter what language we use, the forces that don't want change will spin it against us. I think that ultimately, the shadow eruption we are in now will matter more. When we are finished seeing the corruption and utter depravity, the way forward will be clear to many more men and women. That's the sea change I'm looking for. In the meantime, I'm open to all the words that help.

Maria Luz O'Rourke's avatar

Wonderful analysis of the topics that can quickly cause us to throw up our hands (or just throw up).

I am reading Astrological Ages and The Galactic Center: Ancient Wisdom for This Time of Transition by Heather Ensworth, PhD. It zooms out on the patriarchy, and is fascinating. She uses a lot of mythology to illustrate alignments to the energy of the cosmos.

Susan Kacvinsky's avatar

Sounds right up my alley. My favorite POV is zoom-out, and “time of transition” is right where I think we are. Also, that’s the proper job, IMHO, for mythology. It’s a metaphor pointing to something deeper, unless it’s being used by people in power to get more power. Then it’s tyranny. Or fascism.

Robin Blackburn McBride's avatar

"Here’s what the fifth wave of feminism is going to show you: We can save ourselves. We can love ourselves. The antidote to patriarchy is compassionate community." I so agree. Your powerful essay made me smile many times, Susan. Those waves. ✨️

Susan Kacvinsky's avatar

Thanks Robin. We are going to save ourselves. I can feel it happening. We aren’t out of the shadow yet. Not even close. I’m here for it, though. Let’s see how bad it really is. Then we can grieve and after that, we can heal.

Elizabeth Yoffe's avatar

Yes! Time to change the whole system and create a world where compassion, decency and care for each other is valued over hierarchy, competition and resource hoarding.

Susan Kacvinsky's avatar

Exactly. Why else would our collective shadow rise so darkly? Time for real change.

Elizabeth Yoffe's avatar

Yes! 🔥

Me's avatar

Susan. Awesome as always.

Susan Kacvinsky's avatar

Thank you Me! Now that’s a sentence.

Charlotte Henley Babb's avatar

Be sure to put on your wet suit and take plenty of oxygen.

Alyce Elmore's avatar

Great article as always. I like to think that the fifth wave is coming but in case I don't live that long, let me simply say, I will rejoice when children asked what they'd like to be when they grow up, respond--kind.

Susan Kacvinsky's avatar

Wow. I love that. I live for that moment, too. It’s coming. I feel it.

A Long Story's avatar

❤️🩷💚💙💛 one for every person to whom I sent this.

Susan Kacvinsky's avatar

Wow. I’m really a little overwhelmed. Thank you so much.

Nan Tepper's avatar

OMG. Remember Janis on Friends? When she'd say OH MY GOD!! I've been screaming that out loud through this entire read, and the second one.

Because this? THIS! I've already pelted you with personal comments by text, but my sweet, smart friend, we need to create a section on your site, and call it "Susan's Greatest Hits."

Because, oh my dear. You nailed it. "Susan said it first."

Blow me out. Love it.

Susan Kacvinsky's avatar

Thank you, my friend. I’m so blown away.

Nan Tepper's avatar

LOVE You. This was the best. xo

A Long Story's avatar

I know, right?

Leah Mack's avatar

beautifully said. thank you

Susan Kacvinsky's avatar

Thanks for leaving a comment. It helps a lot.